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Sunday, August 22, 2010

The recent comment on Dharma in response to the ongoing debate on Shantanus blog

Below is produced the original comment in full in response to the ongoing debate on Dharma over http://satyameva-jayate.org/2010/02/08/dharma-harapriya/#comment-98411.



Dear friends,

I wish this debate end with the enlightenment to the deserved ones [and may equal to God Krishna ?]

Dharma began in the ancient days, accomplished its goal to the extent possible, got distorted over the period of time (as if it were its virtue) and today it need to be re-established again in its pristine purity.

It means…,

Dharma is that set of rules which ultimately and anyhow (including apparently adharmic way-a great contradiction indeed but true) brings about the ultimate welfare (Kalyan) to the individual and the society (via- dharma-artha-kam-moksha etc)

The ultimate knowledge [Jnana] (e.g. assimilating the fact of Dvaita and Advaita as two sides of the same coin) ordains the man to be dharmic (as per individual Patrata-eligibility) because of his social nature. If man were unsocial animal nothing could have been emerged out.

Thus Dharma had its origin to the Jnana and nothing else. Only Jnani can say what is dharma and it is purely a relative term. Only the Jnana is absolute. Therefore as per place and time (Desh, Kal anusar) the sense of dharma and its meaning changes. Therefore we for the intellectuals who are a bit short of Jnana along with the rest of others the term Dharma is so confusing and contradictory.

Jnani is a one to whom nothing is a secret. Universe begins and dies with him and assumes the form he wishes. (don’t panic it’s purely scientific. Once you get enlightened as per above clue to Jnana, you are sure to experience the same). He alone knows the entire gamut of the human nature, his physical and mental impulses and taking into account the same he defines dharma and creates the power (king) to establish it and then king sustains himself by protecting the dharma.

That is why so long as the dharma is there the welfare of the society is guaranteed and the moment dharma vanishes society succumbs to the pain (dukha) and also causes the power (raj satta) to fail.

The meaning of dharma extends from negative extremity to positive extremity depending on desh, Kal and circumstances and from person to person. Traditions, dharmgranthas, Raj-dharma etc are a part of that Dharma which originated from the Jnana of the Jnani (Guru-e.g. Vyasa)

For Dharma,

            Hinsa- Ahinsa
            False-truth
            Adharma-dharma
            Adultery- Brahmacharya
            Corruption-non corruption
            Pap (sin) -Punya (good) …..and so……….


are APPARENTLY equal! (that is why its so confusing for the mandane man). Commitment of hinsa cannot be cited as adharma e.g. Swamis example in one of the above comments. Our Itihasa and scriptures are witness to this sort of Dharma. When the time comes to establish the Best Government as desired by FTI we may need to pass through all these (apparently) negative acts without hesitation and in keeping with the dharma (Welfare Policies- to be formulated).

But the great danger exists here. The veil man making use of these principles may engage himself in a virtually Adharmic acts which are detrimental to the society and individual. To avoid this danger the power to define the dharma between the above two extremities is given only to Jnanies and not even to Kings (the government, the power as is done today) because they are not eligible for the same as explained above.
That is why Jnana is limited only to Brahmans (not by birth but by karma) and not the rest. It is justified for this reason.

Therefore my friends we first need Jnanies who define Dharma (policies in todays context) and who create the power (the King, the government in todays context) and then we need the Kings (Political Leaders) who will run the government based on that Dharma (policies). That is my essence. Thus Politics base itself on the Dharma. How is it then that it can ever be separated from Dharma. Only in present days when there is a gross distortion of the Dharma and to avoid its misuse, talk of separating dharma from politics is being made. For this reason it can never be a lasting solution.

{          Here it is to be noted that in todays context the policies of the government should become the dharma of the society otherwise policy cannot be of any use. Of course at present the Indian Constitution (the Modern Dharma- which is a source of all the policies) lacks the ability to bring the intent of the dharma (i.e. Welfare of the entire society) the thing is entirely different and that is why this movement for better government is going on.  }


--
To be eligible for Jnani following pre-requisites are necessary.

The core (die hard) curiosity to know and understand the secret of the universe.

Past examples of such Jnani i.e. Krishna, Ram , Ved-Vyas.

It is not that the materialistic scientists alone are trying to solve the secrets of the universe. In principle, whatever discoveries and inventions are made it would be only infinitesimal part of the great secrete. (even though this is a fact materialistic sense of inquiry should never be discouraged. In Indian tradition the same materialistic curiosity was not upto the mark. We should regret it. It was due to the distortion of the Jnana and Dharma perhaps.)

In our philosophical treaties like Advaita and Dvaita, Bhagavat Geeta etc the above secret has been pointed out abundently long ago. But still these are only secrets and debate goes on about their meanings just like now. That is a tragedy.

It is the original thinking that alone can lead to this secret of Universe. If one tries to transfer the same most of it gets distorted and misplaced.

You see that secret is unveiled as above. But do we understand it? Perhaps we lack sense of curiosity to the core.

Please note that above comments cover almost the entire gamut of Human Life in few words (there is no alternative either. Dharma can never be understood by delinking it from the Jnana). So when read in haste can create lot of confusion.

For the sake of Dharma please comment.


Dear Shantanu,

 The subject of Jnana is so vital and fundamental that it may need separate blog for discussion. Without this however discussions, debate are made about the dharma, politics, morale …..etc which are all the products of the Jnana alone can never bear the desired and long lasting fruits. How do you think?

End. 






Hope! In the near future the FTI will take over the Indian Government for the betterment of all and establish the Dharma as it is!

Recently after this blog was started I came across the FTI over the net. I liked the Ideas. I contacted one of the member and exchanged the Ideas. Then I saw the Shantanus blog, and Sabhlokcity web. The Ideas were similar.


The first issue I came across was "Dharma". Immediately I exchanged the ideas with some members and even posted a comment on http://satyameva-jayate.org/2010/02/08/dharma-harapriya/#comment-98411. 


Here I am reproducing the the ideas which I exchanged with these members. Note that I haven't modified the same for this blog. However the idea can be conveyed easily.


Please read on.


3rd email.




Dear Sabhlok,

I recently came across the FTI, a bit of your bio-data and related websites, and I understand that you are one of the ardent propogator of human welfare. I am so excited happily. During the last few years my philosophical thinking (about the ultimate truth) got finalized to the core of my curiosity and its essence is the Welfare of the society. The same truth has been evident from here and there in Indian philosophy, Ramayan, Mahabharata etc. but the veil man (don’t take it verbatim) hardly understands it. Anyway it’s as complicated as simple. The right perspective comes only through the curiosity to understand the ultimate truth. The ultimate truth (Welfare of the mankind) which is in consonance with the Advaita and Dvaita can only be established through the Dharma which is a set of rules which governs the individual and society for its eternal welfare.

Sir, to me Dharma and Politics co-exist i.e. without Dharma no Political existence and without Political Power Dharma cannot last. I have been having a detailed discussion on this issue with one of the FTI member. I reproduce the same here verbatim. I will be happy if you let me know your views on the same. Either I will correct myself or you will be rectified. Please read on………..



1st email……dated 16.08.10


Dear friend,

I am a bit hopeful now that a company of friends who aim at Ramarajya do exist in the world after seeing the FTI.

But given the political tag on the lines of rest of the political parties in India and out of India to the FTI, I fear some day it may fade away or become just like rest of those political parties who initially start with a big bang (high ideas) and after they taste the power during the course of time they just replace the same with the majority appeasement so that they themselves sustain.

Because the human history is witness to the above fact leave alone the present day parties like BJP, congress etc. Still in the books (Mahabharat, Ramayan, Chanakya niti etc) written by the wise the reason for the above mentioned downfall is abundantly mentioned. IT IS THE FALL OF DHARMA.

DHARMA is that set of rules which should govern the conduct of each individual for his own welfare, happiness etc so that society can sustain healthily. But note that DHARMA is framed only by the wise based on the experience of thousands of years and its practical implications (taking into account the impulses of mind and body etc. with pure scientific temper) and the rest of the people can only follow it. That’s all.

For the present day scenario in India the “Constitution” has become our Dharma which treats the donkeys and horses alike and legalizes the two donkeys to rule upon a single horse because donkeys are in a majority. i.e. it legalizes the ruling by 51 foolish men over the 49 wise men in a society of 100 men. This is just one of the numerous pitfalls of a democracy. Whereas in SANATANA dharma a rule by a single wise men governs the universe. This is a contradiction, so the above downfall. Of course we today’s people don’t know a better thing than this worst democracy, the thing is different. That’s why this FTI (?).

The above argument can never be interpreted as supporting the castism, superstitions in our religions and so on. It only means a proper scientific interpretations of the DHARMA (the original sense with which they were written and which ultimately aim only at KALYAN of the society) which were distorted a long ago which ruined the India (nay, the world) till today.


Now the question comes who will define the Dharma and its details and how, how the rest will accept it in the present world etc…….

If one sincerely tries to answer the same and if it is not the change of subject and our topic of discussion, according to me he should first be able to answer the following questions.

1.     What is the secret of the Universe?
2.     Are rebirths, Gods etc a scientific or otherwise a truth?

These are only a token questions. In our struggle we will face still challenging questions and circumstances and we should be able to answer the same easily.

Note that in answering the above questions many have lived their entire life and died empty. Not only that but religions like Islam, Christen and Hindu etc came into existance only to answer the above question but in reality all these are existing today in a distorted manner and are causing havoc in the society.


But my dear fried we can make a change. We only need the answers to above sort of questions. If yours match that with of mine we have own and we will be strengthened. If not, we can only follow the best whomsoever we believe and be one of the routine.

If you think you need the help to answer the above sort of questions feel free to contact me. I do have the perfect answers which can satisfy a perfect MUMUKSU and who is with a perfect scientific temperament.

If you think FTI has nothing to do with such sort of discussion, thinking etc., then my friend rest assured that yours party will be a sort of BJP, Congress etc sooner or later.


Waiting for your reply.

My id:                         rkumarane@gmail.com

With Best wishes.







2nd email……dated 20.08.10

Dear Sandeep,

[“By Dharma I does not mean the traditional Hindu, Islam or Christen etc. but the core scientific blend of all these which promotes only the welfare of the Individual and the Society as a whole. It may mean cleansing and strengthening of these”. Its establishment is  a first step towards anything. ‘How to do the same’ I wish at FTI we all to plan the same.]

I regret the full implications/meaning of my last email could not reach (understand) you. But its quite common. Here is a better effort to make you understand the same.

Please recall the phonic discussion we had on 19.08.10 after you just replied me in email.

You wrote,
                           I believe the dharma has to be re-established in order to bring in the peace to society. But that has to be done by the religious societies, trusts. Govt must concentrate on governance and should not interfere in religious or moral work. Yes it must encourage good initiatives but should not do it on own. Upholding dharma or restructuring it can be done by devoted religious people where money and power is not involved. FTI does believe in liberal way of thinking like most of the Hindus. FTI is not coming into existence to taste the power or its fruits. We have clear goal of improving the governance and uphold liberal and tolerant nature of Bharat without compromising internal security. We have a stringent set of rules for accountability and responsibility through checks and balances. We seek leaders, who are willing to lead the attack against ills of current society. One can always uphold dharma and protect it without invading other's liberty.


--Your intent if I am not misunderstood is that “Religion (Dharma) and Politics are two different things and should not ever be mixed.” May be todays political philosophers/intelligentisa say this. But here the thinking of such Sayers is that “they understand the religion just as a thing of personal practice and has very little to do with the majority society and if it is mixed with the politics or governance it will dissatisfy the minorities and may go against their beliefs and this would be against the political parties in power and similar implications for the politics. ” But this type of thinking is opportunistic in nature as detailed in following paras.

         Why Dharma (Religion) and Politics are not different?

Ans:

Dharma is that set of rules which govern the conduct of the individual and of a group of people or society which is devoted to it for the welfare of the individual and the society as a whole.

         Whereas the Politics is just one of the branches of the dharma i.e. Politics is dictated by the Dharma. That is why Politics cannot be without ethics. Note that a saint (Jnani, Guide, or set of Rules, Dharma) who is the embodiment of Dharma creates (dictates) the Raja or Government which runs the Politics. So long there is a above said saint (Jnani, Guide, or set of Rules) the Politics remains for the welfare of the society and the moment he (saint, Dharma) is ‘out’ the governance(politics) becomes an ‘Anarchy’.

Recall that all the past Political “Yuddhas (Wars)” were “Dharmyuddhas”. It was for Dharma that Rama killed the Ravana. On the Kurukshetra Krishna the Political leader and embodiment of Dharma (both at a time) preached the Political leader Arjuna a Dharmashastra (Geeta) on the Political Platform during the Political Mahayuddha in Mahabharat. And only after that understanding the Dharma that he won the Political War and not before that.

         If you look at the globe you will find that it is the Islam and Christen Dharmas that have made the Political countries in the world. If it was not for Dhama then there would have not been any political boundaries in our country or any where in the world.

       Then where do we find the separation of Dharma and Politics?

         You see that Universe itself is a concept of a Dharma (Dharma is pure science) and not that of Politics. Then how is that Politics is not governed by Dharma.

But still, why in 21st  Century in our country this separation of Dharma is propogated?... Because these half baked thinkers think …….

         “ Most of todays Political thinkers think that democracy is the best ever system world has known. Because there is maximum freedom of expression, belief, practice, liberty etc. whereas in Dharmic Societies (like Islam) the individual is deprived of the same and is under social/political obligation to suffocate himself and bury all his expressions etc. Especially in Indian society where so many different religions exist and politics has become so competitive  and challenging. In such a situation if the Political power favours one Dharma/Religion then the rest gets annoyed and the internal security may get challenged and chaos will prevail. Apart from this the Party in Power will become the target of the minorities and it may lose the power. Therefore in todays era where mind blogging scientific/ technological advancement is being done it will be worthless and retrogatory step to bring the traditional Dharma in Politics. Therefore Politics and Dharma should not be mixed.”

         What a wonderful exposition! Don’t you agree to this? !!!!!! Don’t get tempted.


Then my dear friend don’t you think that it is evident from the above argument that it is for internal security and stability/peace and in keeping with the India’s tolerant attitude that this separation of Politics and Dharma is argued!!  Yes it so only.

Then it is evident that it is the religious minorities that are a real and great threat to Indias Governance and its internal security and not the mixing of the Dharma with Politics as is being argued. You know that in Islamic countries Politics is run as per the Shariat (Dharma) and not necessarily as per the fair governing rules. For most of the countries Religion is far more important that the fair Politics. E.g.  Osma bin Laden. In our country also when these minority religious people have to choose between the fair government and their religion they will always choose their own religion only and your fair accountable/transparent etc government will go to the hell! At a single call from their religious counterparts outside India they will ruin India and make it their religious land. (and we will allow it because we are tolerant and free minded! That is why what we are today!).


That is why these religious minorities bear the core sympathy to their counter parts in whatever developments outside India in their favour. I have seen it in Cricket matches for simple example. (There are few exceptions, they are not a matter of concern.)

(If you think this argument is in favour of Islamic countries, or Bin Laden it will be gross misunderstanding because their Dharma is not scientific or accepted universally.)

         In summary Dharma as noted at the top of the article is always at the core of every human individual and Politics should always be in consonance with that religion. Then can you ever separate the religion from Politics even if one wishes? Theoretically impossible.

Religion is not a matter of entertainment, timepass and cakewalk that it can be entrusted to the religious trusts and societies. It is core to everything. Politics takes its birth from it. It is the primary duty of the Politics to uphold the dharma and act in accordance with the same. The moment the dharma suffers a setback Politics cannot exist.

You wrote that Hindus are more liberal. That is why percentage of the Hindus decrease from 100% to some 75% throughout the centuries and if we deduct the lowcast people( who now believe in some other religions because uppercaste Hindus ill-treated them over the centuries) it will be still be less! And if our tolerant attitude which is matter of pride for our historians continues in future we will vanish from the universe! And we need not mind because we are liberal or [Advaities]! What a jok!

Liberty means to let the laws of nature govern the vagaries of the mind and not let the vagaries of the mind rule against the laws of nature as is being done in Islam by bin Laden, the religious bigots.

We, the intellectuals are failing to define the liberty at a proper point between these two extremes thoughts as stated in preceding para. That is why the debate among the intellectuals also.

Note that liberty, tolerance, accountability, responsibility which you referred to in your email are defined by the Dharmas and not Politics then how these could be brought into effect by confining the Dharma to trusts etc?

However the mistake to define the same has happened in our constitution by politicians neglecting the Dharma. Now you see that even if the crores of pages are wasted to make it fine it will never be sufficient. We witness it today.

If any how we establish our government without any dharma (~idealogy) it is the nature of the power, time and human beings to get corrupt however stringent rules may be in place. Without Dharma and Morale, distortion will always creep in during the period of time. History is witness to it.

Ultimately I present here a formula for total solutions to all the problems and make FTI everlasting Dharma which will always be protected by governments that will rule the worlds (Goverments will be as we dream of)

Start------

Dharma rules the Power (Govt.) and Govt rults the Society.

Just as the govt cannot question the Dharma so the Society cannot question the Govt. (Here questioning means fundamental and not the questions meant for improving the efficiency.)


Dharma is defined by the Jnanies.

And Jnani is a one who has the welfare of the society at his core heart and nothing in the universe is a secret to him. E.g. {Shiva God, where will find him- we the deserved onesl}

------End.


If you understand the right implications of the above discussion please first try to differentiate between the religious fanaticism (like bin Laden) and the one explained above. If with patience you read the above again and again you may get the full implications. Share the views with others as well for better understanding.
                                                               

You may forward the same along with the earlier ones to your friends who are devoted to the welfare of the society without any cut / modifications.

Waiting for reply on:

The more you question, the more you understand. The moment the sense of enquiry ceases within you, it will be your dead end.

         rkumarane@gmail.com

may also visit



Note:
 I referred the krishikdesa website. I think however solutions we pour in they are likely to be waste. Because government will handle the case in a way beneficial to them. And bureaucracy will handle the same as if it is not their cause. Very few in Politics and bureaucracy are really qualified to handle the cause. Those who are qualified will hardly get the chance. The topic is a subject matter of study by the experts and specialists with the help of todays technological advancements. Political will is wanting for the same. ……and so on. Earlier we bring our government, the better it would be for the farmers! That’s only the hope!



Saturday, August 7, 2010

Do you think ideal society can be developed?

Yes I think it can be upto a certain level where everybody will be happy and it would be just like Ramarajya provided we the likeminded join together to take over the politics. Are you one of those great leaders committed to bring the Renaissance. If you are reply now.